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I think it's trip planning that's making my brain short circuit, and make me think that oh, I posted the other day, didn't I?What I've been doing for the last two weeks is gearing myself up for Roadtrip '09 - A Fan and her Prius. -->Let's start there, I need a cool name for the roadtrip, suggestions? Just in case I though that I posted about it and didn't, here's the run down. -I need to get to Minneapolis for Writercon -While thinking about that, Megacorp told me to used oodles of my banked vacation time or lose it -So I thought, what if I go the Minneapolis and just keep driving? -What if I drive so much, I can join up with media_junkie at Gencon in Indianapolis in the middle of August? -Huh, what interesting things could I do on the way to Minneapolis? So on July 24 (possibly the 23rd) I head out for Niagara Falls; Hillside Music Festival - Guelph, ON; Bruce Peninsula, On; Car Ferry to Manitoulin Island, ON; Sault Ste. Marie, ON (possibly Michigan too); Thunder Bay, ON, Cloufet, MN; Minneapolis - Writercon And then after Writercon Pipestone, MN; Badlands, SD; Mt. Rushmore-Crazy Horse-Deadwood, SD; Devil's Tower, WY; Cody, WY; Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks. -- I'll be spending about 4 days there On the way out, Craters of the Moon National Monument, ID; Lava Hot Springs, ID; Arches National Park, UT; Rocky Mountain National Park - Trail Ridge Road, CO; Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indianapolis - Gencon I may see the salt mines in Hutchinson, Kansas depending on how I'm doing for time. I'll stop at least long enough to see the arch in St Louis. --> Any must sees along that route? For those of you who have been to Yellowstone and Grand Teton, any preferences for campgrounds whether they are in the park or outside of it. I have reservations up to the doorstep of Yellowstone and reservations for my first two stops out of Yellowstone. Still working on the park itself. Worse come to worst I'll get a site when I get there -- most sites in Yellowstone can't be reserved and they are first come, first serve. *** In the meantime, I've been doing work around checking distances in Google maps and gathering equipment. I'm armed with a new, moderately priced camera and a bag full of extra batteries and accessories to go with. I also have the spiffiest new tent that whooshes into existence and folds up just as quick. I'm downloading audio books and music --> by the way, I would still love everyone's Podfic recs. Got a few from my last request :-) I just dragged the camping gear out of the shed. Fortunately, it looks good, unlike a lot of other things in the shed that have suffered because of weather and critter incursions. the camping gear was in an 18 gallon hard plastic tub, which the mice seemed disinclined to gnaw. I have to go through the gear and see what's usable, in need of repair or needs to be replaced. I'd like to pack the old tent in the bottom of the trunk just in case. It's small and will be invaluable should I get caught in some kind of tent-rending storm. Don't forget, I'll be camping for most of a month. I have to check the lantern/flashlight type devices. I've already washed the air mattress sized sheets and started gathering the road food. Most of the places I'll be staying, I'll have electric at my tent, so I'm hoping to do most of the cooking with a hot water kettle and an electric frying pan. Yellowstone will be a bit of a pain because no electric. I'll have to fire up the camp stove and see how it's doing. Still debating the whole cooking thing. *** Today, also in prep or my trip, I finally primed the spare room - go me! I had to go by a second can of primer from the store, but the priming is done. I also had them tint the second can of primer and I'm feeling *MUCH* more confident about the color. See, I had colors picked out and then I went to the mismatched paint pile and found two cans of the low-VOC paint in nearly the exact same color. It's official name is Nantucket Gray - which I didn't pay much attention to until I got home and saw it under different lighting where the fact that it was gray and not a exactly an olive green showed up. In the room, it looks green again ;-) Still a bunch of work to do before I take off. I want the room painted and the new floor laid so that when rockin_violin and family borrow my place while I'm off on the road trip, they don't have to visit a construction zone. I've been keeping up with summer TV and have nearly finished The Shield on DVD. The Shield, by the way, is awesome; it was so robbed of Emmy's. It's like a modern version of Shakespear. You have kings and kingmakers with treacherous generals and both loyal and foolish foot soldiers. It seriously rocks. I've also been watching the 30th Anniversary edition of Close Encounters because omg!Devil's Tower!
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The case was Safford Unified School District v. Redding and here are the details
13 year old girl, Savannah 8th grade Another student says that Savannah is carrying around prescription-strength ibuprofen concealed on her person The school did not call her parents The school did not try to check the veracity of the tip The school strip searched her - two female administrators, on the order of a higher placed male administrator, checked in her bra and underpants for the pills By the way, she didn't have any medication on her
The court ruled 8-1 that her 4th Amendment Rights to Privacy had been violated. In case you're wondering, the Justice who thought it was okay to strip search a 13-year old on a tip from another 13-year old, without even informing the parents, because it was in the best interest of the school trying to enforce good order and discipline - Clarence Thomas
-- oh yeah, are middle schools are just like the armed forces.
But because kids in school do not enjoy the same kind of protections that an adult facing the cops do, they did allow that it might have been okay if
-they thought she was carrying very dangerous or illegal drugs -they had restricted the search to her outer garments -because the law was not completely clear at the time, the administrators involved are not liable -- Ruth Ginsberg (we love you Ruth!) disagreed on this count, thinking that the entire business and humiliation of questioning the girl for 2 hours and not talking to her parents should have been more obvious. Not to mention accepting the word of the classmate as solid evidence.
I feel a little better about the world right now - not perfect, just a little closer to fine.
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It was a quite celebration with friends on a rainy Saturday. We did a lovely brunch and watched some videos with the kids. We did set up a little altar for summer wishes. I asked for good camping weather and no flat tires. Midsummer is one of those holidays that kind of speaks for itself - like what more would you want that a day that was filled with more light than you can use? ...which seems so strange with the things on my mind today I like my We'Moon Calendar - lots of spiritual and especially feminist spiritual art and musing. I'm often turned off by the political/activist track that so many of the works take. It's not that I don't agree, but I prefer to separate the two... This weekend, like so many, of you I saw the footage of the Death of Neda. For those that haven't seen it yet, it is the raw footage of a 16 year old girl in Iran that was murdered while watching the protests. She was shot from some distance, and her family is in anguish as they try to save her but cannot. This Time Article, In Iran, One Woman's Death May Have Many Consequences brings more context to the events. Neda is not the girl's name - or perhaps it is now. Neda is Farsi for the voice or the call. If you Google or do a YouTube search, you will find it. Even though it is graphic and disturbing, think about watching it anyway; it is a crime that deserves witnesses. One of the things I wondered as I watched - Was Neda a random victim or was she targeted the conservative factions, because she was wearing jeans. This is a poem in We'Moon's Summer Solstice pages... Dancing as LiberationThere are countries where it is a punishable crime to dance. Women must cover their heads, never raise their voice in song and never ever display such immoral conduct as dancing. Those who forbid the dance forbid life. If they tied me in ropes Held a gun to my head And forbid me to dance I would dance in my head. If I woke up tomorrow Without limbs that would move I would dance in my soul. If dance was taken from me I would snatch it back. I would dance with my eyes. I would dance in my breathing. I would dance completely still. I would dance with the atoms moving inside me. I would dance in the mingling of voices around me Layering transcending swooping into each other. I would dance in the red-blushed sky that caresses the tree line. I would dance on the call of the geese that cut through the sky above me, my winged partners in the dance. If dance was taken from me I would snatch it back. I would dance passion. I would dance pain. I would dance magick. I would dance at my labor and dance at my rest. I would dance my power. I would dance my palpable joy of existence. In some countries it is illegal to dance. It is illegal to display such immoral conduct. Dancing is an act of liberation It is for those who must dance in stillness that I open myself up in dance. Victoria Day 2007 As printed in We’Moon ’09, At the Crossroads*** The World is watching. And some of us are dancing for you, Neda.
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Things *YOU* can help with *Podcasts! I'm going to be taking long ass road trip and would appreciate cool things to listen too. Based on my experience with audio books, a good reader is the key to success. I'd love recs for fanworks in NCIS, SG-1, SGA, Angel, or just about any fandom that I enjoy watching even if I'm not a big fic reader in that fandom. This is a chance for shows like Eureka!, Supernatural, Bones, Psych, BSG, Dr. Who and Torchwood to represent. *Oh! I know that Dr. Who and Torchwood also have pro audio works out there, so recs for them appreciated. *Also, radom works with the favorite actors doing readings would be good. Somewhere I have a bunch of the ST:tNG cast doing The Time Machine, and at Tribal Forces I picked up a bunch of the SG-1 cast including Claudia Black doing some audio plays. By the way, Gillian Anderson and Tim Curry are totally hot, no matter what dreck they're reading - the only way that I will subject myself to Anne Rice anymore. *And while I'm rambling about all this, Johnathon Davis, who read Snow Crash and Diamond Age is one of my favorite pro readers.
Fannish Stuff *Icon for Media_junkie that she asked me to make months ago *Post to Writercon archive *Assemble fic for Writercon library
Writing (technically not all of these are due before July 24, but who knows how much writing I will do on the road) *NCIS_LFWS prompt for this week *Kink Bingo - at least one story by August ?, uhm 15? *NCIS_Ficathon - write prompt by August 20
House stuff *Keep mostly up with the outdoor work *Keep mostly up with dishes, laundry, vacuuming and ugh, the bathroom *Finish makeover on the wolf room - That would be sand, prime, paint, pull staples from floor, install ceiling, install floor - funky new light fixture would be a bonus
Road trip Prep *Dig out camping equipment from shed access what needs cleaning, replacing, repairs, consumable materials *Practice with the new camera - get DT that pic she asked for :-) *Cooking experiments with dry ingedients - stuff I can pack and will make it for the month long trip. Although, trust me there will be much supplementing with fresh stuff from local stores and restaurants. After all, a huge feature of the road trip is the road food. *Load up external hard drives with music and media *Load up GPS with known addresses *Figure out audio books for GPS *See if portable tape player can be resurrected and will sound okay played in car -- dude, I have the unabridged Snow Crash and The Diamond Age on tape - prohibitively expensive to replace and no luck so far in getting a decent conversion. *Figure out how I'm getting from Yellowstone to Indianapolis. If anyone can recommend anything about Kansas or Nebraska it would be appreciated. I've talked to natives of one state, haven't gotten any definitive must sees from any of them. One sold me on sites in Colorado. So now you know all my impressions of Kansas and Nebraska ;-) *and about a million more things
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If you are reading this right now, you have more luxury than someone in Iran could ever hope for right now. If you are watching TV or a video on youtube, updating your status on Facebook, Tweeting, or even texting your friend, you are lucky. If you are safe in your home, and were able to sleep last night without the sounds of screaming from the rooftops, you need to know and understand what is happening to people just like you in Iran right now. They are not the enemy. They are a people whose election has been stolen. For the first time in a long time, a voice for change struck the youth of Iran, just as it did for many people in the United States only seven months ago. Hossein Mousavi gained the support of millions of people in Iran as a Presidential candidate. He stands for progressiveness. He supports good relations with the West, and the rest of the world. He is supported with fervor as he challenges the oppressive regime of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. On Friday, millions of people waited for hours in line to vote in Iran's Presidential election. Later that night, as votes came in, Mousavi was alerted that he was winning by a two-thirds margin. Then there was a change. Suddenly, it was Ahmadinejad who had 68% of the vote - in areas which have been firmly against his political party, he overwhelmingly won. Within three hours, millions of votes were supposedly counted - the victor was Ahmadinejad. Immediately fraud was suspected - there was no way he could have won by this great a margin with such oppposition. Since then, reports have been coming in of burned ballots, or in some cases numbers being given without any being counted at all. None of this is confirmed, but what happened next seems to do the trick.  The people of Iran took the streets and rooftops. They shout "Death to the dictator" and "Allah o akbar." They join together to protest. Peacefully. The police attack some, but they stay strong. Riots happen, and the shouting continues all night. Text messaging was disabled, as was satellite, and websites which can spread information such as Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, and the BBC are blocked in the country. At five in the morning, Arabic speaking soldiers (the people of Iran speak Farsi) stormed a university in the capital city of Tehran. While sleeping in their dormitories, five students were killed. Others were wounded. These soldiers are thought to have been brought in by Ahmadinejad from Lebanon. Today, 192 of the university's faculty have resigned in protest. Mousavi requested that the government allow a peaceful rally to occur this morning - the request was denied. Many thought that it would not happen. Nevertheless, first a few thousand people showed up in the streets of Tehran. At this point, it is estimated that 1 to 2 million people were there. Mousavi spoke on the top of a car. The police stood by. For a few hours, everything was peaceful. Right now, the same cannot be said. Reports of injuries, shootings, and killings are flooding the internet. Twitter has been an invaluable source - those in Iran who still know how to access it are updating regularly with picture evidence. People are being brutally beaten. Tonight will be another night without rest for so many in Iran no older than I am. Tonight there is a Green Revolution. For more information: PICTURES: here and hereNEW INFORMATION: Here - near constant updates Here - ONTD_political live post ON TWITTER: @ StopAhmadi, @ ProtesterHelp دنیارابگوییدچطورآنهاانتخاباتمان دزدیده اند Tell the world how they have stolen our election </div></div>
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Title: Never Too Loud Author: justhuman, justhumanRating: PG Genre: Het? Technically Abby and McGee are "broken-up" whatever that means to them ;-) Category: Character Study Characters/Pairings: Abby/Tim, past relationship, Team Spoilers: No spoilers beyond Witch HuntWarnings: No spoilers beyond Witch HuntSummary: Abby explains what her part of her world is like. Word Count: 3092 A/N: Written for Session 2, Round 2 of ncis_lfws. The prompt was 'Character Study'. Select a single character, primary or secondary, and get inside their head. What goes through their mind? Their emotions? Give some insight that we might not see on screen.Disclaimer: These characters belong to DPB, CBS, Paramount, et al. No copyright infringement is intended. ETA: I received my critiques for this story over at the challenge site. One felt that I did a poor job with the handling of deaf culture in this story. My apologies for what I may have gotten wrong, mischaracterized or simply presented poorly. I welcome additional critiques on this topic or indeed with any part of this or any of my other stories. ( Never Too Loud )
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Happy Birthdays out to fings, theferretgirl, bcassie, inkandchocolate, kaydee23 trish_punch, and ladycat777!!! Yeah, I'm behind again - Sorry! hope you had great B-Days :-D Did I mention that I cut off most of my hair yesterday? Probably not. It may be an inch and a half in the front, but no longer than that anywhere else. We managed to get 3 10" ponytales and one 9 1/2" one to donate to Locks of Love. Locks of Love you ask? They're a charitable organization out to help kids with cancer have a better self-image. They take the hair over 10" and create wigs for the kids in chemo. Hair 6-10" and gray hairs (some of which I donated ;-) will be sold to other wig making organizations and the profits used for the other wig making supplies. Anyway, it's much easier to wash and so one more step on the list of things for the roadtrip. Long hair and coin operated showers at campgrounds, not mixy things. Speaking of roadtrip. With tent now in hand, I did my research and bought a new camera this morning. I opted for the Lumix FZ28. It's technically a point and shoot camera -- I couldn't justify my skill or interest with a Digital SLR. However, it is a point and shoot which can go into manual mode. I thought this is important because the shots I keep trying to take with my little point and shoot just don't come out right. I try for wildlife and close-ups of flowers and the moon. I needed a camera with better zoom and adjustable shutter speeds. This one's got a 60 second shutter on it and pre-sets for "fireworks" and "starry sky" -- I can't wait to get to the places with minimal light pollution like Yellowstone and Rocky Mountain National Forrest. I got it for a decent price. There are accessories I'll need like a tripod and a bag, but I don't have to buy a lens that's more expensive than the camera. I want my special cable back! I think it's in the house, but no clue where. I took it to tribalforces but distinctly remember packing it to go home -- it was on the check list 3 times. I think I remember having next to the TV after I got home. Then I cleaned. Grrr - It's like having it in a safe place. I went to stream a movie last night and no streaming.
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I should be outside mowing the lawn, but I've felt *blah* all day long. Something did not agree with me yesterday and kept me up last night with an aching belly. Today my appitite is off and the tummy is looking for the heavy carb variety of comfort foods. I'll be fine, but I just couldn't face pushing the lawnmower in the sun. So other things. I actually have been to the movies *twice* in the last month. I saw Wolverine a couple of weeks ago - big thumbs up. Although, I was struck by some of the more violent images in the early part of the movie and the idea that there was a 6 year old in the audiance. Then yesterday I saw Star Trek XI - The Reboot. I've been thinking how to phrase this, so bear with me for a long analogy. One of my favorite shows is No Reservations where chef Anthony Bourdain goes all over the world experiencing everthing from native foods to hot food trends. One show he went to Minibar in Washington DC, which specializes in so called "molecular gastronomy" - (MG for short). MG uses science lab equipment to take a dish, break it down into it's components, intensify them and then reconstruct into some pop art style of the dish often with a different texture - so your mohito may come out in the form of a fragile bubble on a spoon, but taste more like a mohito than the cocktail at your side. So at Minbar you pay a fixed price to get a single-bite menu of 30 or so of these complicated gems. The meal isn't about the one fabulous dish, but the experience of tasting amazing flavor in unexpected ways. Then thing is that Tony summed it up right. No patron is going to sit down for that meal and like all 30 things - but the experience will be worth it. See and that's what the new, re-visioned Battlestar Galactica by Ron Moore and company was. It wasn't a show that I loved every moment of. There was never any hope that it would have a good ending or a bad ending; to me, it was something that was something that was spinning itself into existence and the question was would it hold itself together or collapse under it's own weight. Whether it did or not almost didn't matter because you could find amazing things in the various shards you could look at. It was a piece of art that I wanted to visit but not necessarily hang on my wall. ( Now let's talk about Star Trek )
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Porn Battle VIII (The Eighth Wonder – Bigger, Longer, Uncut) is live! New fics and other fan works posted until June 15, 9pm (UK time - they have a link to a time converter in the post ;-) Also in the post is Link to Prompts - also links to Word and PDF Downloads. OMG! The prompt list is *enormous*! So many fandoms, big and small represented. I downloaded, found my fandom name and highlighted. Finding the main fandom section is easy, but finding seems to me to be the best way to find your fandom in the crossover setion Link to a post with Dreamwidth invite codes -- the main post is not open for anonymous comments. You either need to have a Dreamwidth account or sign in with your LJ name using OpenID. To make your Open ID life easier, sign into LJ, click the openID link, sign in with your OpenID at Dreamwidth (validate an e-mail if you'd like the comments sent back to you) and then go to the post. Once you're signed in with OpenID you can post comment on DW just like you had an account there.  All the fic and art fit in a comment, but if comment fic doesn't work for you, they will all be up at the Pornbattle Site. -- And you could go up and read previous porn battles there too!
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-I got from the opening lines to the end of my next LFWS fic. It's not done but any fic I can make reach an end point, I can edit :-) -I got my assignment for ncis_ficathon which I may be posting from the road. These assignments came with 3 options - thank goodness because the first two were daunting -I'm compiling few prompts for oxoniensis Porn Battle VIII. I'm helping NCIS represent! Well, them and maybe a little SG-1 and crossover with SG-1 and Burn Notice -I got incredibly brave and/or stupid and signed up for kink_bingo. Dude, there's about 25 cards/page in the comments; I'm on page 12. There's somewhere between 550 and 600 authors. Yay! Kinkfic! Now I can't claim to have never written kink - I wrote in Angel fandom - it was inevitable :-) No, seriously - I can prove it with one word. Bucket. I rest my case, and if you're still not buying it - I will take yours away ;-) But I was looking at the list of possible kinks and there's stuff on there that I'm not sure I can write -- which doesn't mean I won't happily read it :-D *crosses fingers for a doable card* -I survived the last round of LFWS. Half my comments were positive and half negative. ( more under cut )
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Title: Ohio State, Peoria, Philadelphia, Baltimore Author: justhuman - justhumanRating: G Genre: Gen Category: Character Study/Episode Tag Characters/Pairings: Tony, Abby, Gibbs Spoilers: 3.07 - Sandblasted/1.02 Hung Out To Dry Warnings: None Summary: In the aftermath of Sandblasted, Gibbs reminds Tony of decisions of his own that brought him to NCIS Word Count: 745 A/N: Written for Session 2, Round 1 of ncis_lfws. The prompt was to fill in a missing blank - 750 words max Disclaimer: These characters belong to DPB, CBS, Paramount, et al. No copyright infringement is intended. ( Ohio State, Peoria, Philadelphia, Baltimore )Tags: myfic_ncis
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Holy Crap! it's only 63 Days until Writercon
So here's my plan so far -- *she laughs - you call that a plan?*
July 24 (Fri) -- JH leaves home in NJ and travels to Auburn, NY to crash with favorite crazy!aunt and godfather July 25-26 - Make way to Rochester, NY to visit cousin and free-spirited pagan friend July 27 (Monday) - arrive Toronto via Niagara Falls
What about it my friends north of the border? Would any of you like to do a meet up? The date of July 27 can be a bit flexible. I could show up Sunday afternoon as well. Also, i don't know where everyone lives in relation to Toronto, so another location might possibly work as well. I'll be heading west, sticking near the Great Lakes, so anywhere North of Lake Erie also works. But on Tuesday I need to be on my way west because
July 30 (Thursday) - Arrive Minneapolis, MN
You'll note that there is a gap between July 27 and July 30. I'm looking at my options of when I should leave Ontario, which by the way is *huge* and re-enter the US.
A- Should it be Windsor-Detroit (Michigan) B- Should it be via Sault Ste. Marie through Mackinaw City (Michigan) C- Should it be Thunder Bay - Grand Portage (Minnesota)
Basically how long I stay in Canada determines which parts of the Great Lakes I'll see. I'll definitely see Ontario and Erie.
Route A will mean that I'll probably miss Huron, but will take a car ferry across Lake Michigan. I'll miss Superior Route B will get me Huron and the car ferry across Lake Michigan, again missing Superior Route C will get me Superior, missing Huron and Michigan.
I'm more inclined towards A & B because the ferry ride across Lake Michigan would be *cool* and fulfilling a bit of Due South fantasy thing (*cough* even though Michigan isn't one of the border lakes).
But the question is what's out there? I have to say that the Thunder Bay area is looking pretty barren, the same going for Northern Minnesota ... of course, there is the whole Stargate fantasy thing of going to the land of Jack O'Neill's cabin
I'm thinking the crossing in Windsor-Detroit is seriously busy and citified and industrial and not necessarily the best tourist country -- keeping in mind that while I like museums, I'm more inclined towards natural scenery. I am given to believe there is nothing natural about Detriot.
Which leaves us with the Sault Ste. Marie route - anything interesting to see between Toronto and Sault Ste. Marie?
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Holy Crap! it's only 63 Days until Writercon
So here's my plan so far -- *she laughs - you call that a plan?*
July 24 (Fri) -- JH leaves home in NJ and travels to Auburn, NY to crash with favorite crazy!aunt and godfather July 25-26 - Make way to Rochester, NY to visit cousin and free-spirited pagan friend July 27 (Monday) - arrive Toronto via Niagara Falls
What about it my friends north of the border? Would any of you like to do a meet up? The date of July 27 can be a bit flexible. I could show up Sunday afternoon as well. Also, i don't know where everyone lives in relation to Toronto, so another location might possibly work as well. I'll be heading west, sticking near the Great Lakes, so anywhere North of Lake Erie also works. But on Tuesday I need to be on my way west because
July 30 (Thursday) - Arrive Minneapolis, MN
You'll note that there is a gap between July 27 and July 30. I'm looking at my options of when I should leave Ontario, which by the way is *huge* and re-enter the US.
A- Should it be Windsor-Detroit (Michigan) B- Should it be via Sault Ste. Marie through Mackinaw City (Michigan) C- Should it be Thunder Bay - Grand Portage (Minnesota)
Basically how long I stay in Canada determines which parts of the Great Lakes I'll see. I'll definitely see Ontario and Erie.
Route A will mean that I'll probably miss Huron, but will take a car ferry across Lake Michigan. I'll miss Superior Route B will get me Huron and the car ferry across Lake Michigan, again missing Superior Route C will get me Superior, missing Huron and Michigan.
I'm more inclined towards A & B because the ferry ride across Lake Michigan would be *cool* and fulfilling a bit of Due South fantasy thing (*cough* even though Michigan isn't one of the border lakes).
But the question is what's out there? I have to say that the Thunder Bay area is looking pretty barren, the same going for Northern Minnesota ... of course, there is the whole Stargate fantasy thing of going to the land of Jack O'Neill's cabin
I'm thinking the crossing in Windsor-Detroit is seriously busy and citified and industrial and not necessarily the best tourist country -- keeping in mind that while I like museums, I'm more inclined towards natural scenery. I am given to believe there is nothing natural about Detriot.
Which leaves us with the Sault Ste. Marie route - anything interesting to see between Toronto and Sault Ste. Marie?
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